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Home Forums From The Readers Principals and vice principals shortlisting unfair

This topic contains 17 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Sertog 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #46632

    target
    Participant

    i would like to bring this issue here this forum because i want all people to know about the reality of education ministry and also what to know the opinion from other people.
    Very recently, there was vacancies announced for the post of Vp and principal. The different teachers with their various capacities and abilities, experiences applied the post.
    but very disguising or sad part is getting disqualified for the shortlist from the post. the shortlisting was mainly done base on the degree marks only. but painful part is, teachers who have graduated earlier are not shortlisted because of their last degree marks. The teacher who have graduated after year 2006 are having high degree marks and shortlisted for the post.
    The reason for having less marks during degree course is because before 2005, there wasn’t rcsc exam for B.ed candidates, but later announced and said that there will be rcsc exam for B.ed graduate, the lecture in the college they have started giving high marks for those B.Ed teachers. Earlier only few people can able to score good marks because lecture they tighten the marks or give just pass only.
    now shortlist was done base on the degree marks has really affected those graduate who have passed before the 2005. so it is quite demotivating from ministry side after serving for many years as teacher, monitor, staff secretary and holding other responsibilities in the school. The senior guiding the junoir and junior becoming the principal.
    For example: my friend who have worked as officiating principal for five in years middle secondary school was not shortlisted because he has only 62% of his degree marks. but his junior who do not have any experiences in administration got shortlisted and selected,
    it is really demotivating after serving for long time and even not shortlisted. The ministry may not know how much particular teacher get dishearten and effect his teaching career. if he or she is not shortlisted after carrying out the heavy responsibility, then next time his or her performance goes down . so it is directly or indirectly harm our children, because particular was not in the mood to teach .
    so please change the criteria and encourage experience and senior teachers to participate in administration post. i think getting 50 % in past and getting 80% at present will be equally worth.
    so do understand this logic and set standard criteria for shortlisting the candidate. it would more wise to check , degree marks, PE rating, and recommendation from DEO, Principal and students. some teachers by fortune become the principal, these teachers they haven’t work hard nor contribute any things in the school, simply because of their good academic marks and good orator skills became the principal. later on teachers and students face lots of problems. so i requested MOE, esp. HRO to look at this issues and kindly change the criteria for shortlisting and selecting the good VP and Principals.
    i have personally seen some principal with no manners, forget about being a role model, i am not saying junior are inferior and senior superior, but i want to see capable, dynamic and knowledge principal in the school.
    not arrogant, egoistic and commendable principal. The issues about the principal is already raise in the forum and it is kind signal to MOE, to bear the message in the mind.
    i have posted this issues because i have many friend who are reluctant, dishearten and sad. so on behalf of my friend, i bought this issues, it is very important topic and need to know by all people.

    #46651

    jala
    Participant

    I agree that it is a matter of great concern. It is not just the issue of fairness but a issue which will have huge impact on the society. I don’t think it is in the interest of every one for their children be learning under disgruntled and frustrated teachers resulting from unfair treatment. A fairer system is imperative for healthier society. Infact such unfair procedures are not unique to education ministry alone, favouritism and nepotism are the unwanted weeds in every sector for which an antidote is required urgently. During recruitment, the methods employed are shortlisting and selection. For shortlisting, it should not be solely dependent on one area( as degree marks in this case as mentioned by the author) but rather taking into account other common areas in order t establish a level playing field(because every exam at college may have same standard or the evaluations are not 100% objective). Now coming to the selection, there should be certain standard test to measure the attributes required for taking the particular position.( there are many if only you are aware of it) and even the interview where I feel is the area the interviewer can exercise favouritism and nepotism should be based on the themes which really measures the characteristics(cognitive, affective) required for performing that particular job rather than wasting time asking can you sing, dance etc which is common features of the so called interviewer in Bhutan. I think nothing will be fairer than testing person on the knowledge and skills required to perform that particular job and more important it will not demotivate those who could not get through.

    #46778

    Literature
    Participant

    Talk of being unfair and teachers have never been treated well. Its not only the shortlisting of the principals and vps tht was unfair..
    even the shortlisting of the EMOs weren’t fair. Initially when we went to submit our documents the staff in the desktop(HRD) section checked all our ducuments and confirmed that each of our documents are in place.
    Later as they annouced the shortlisting results they clearly mentioned that some of the teachers are disqualified because they havent submitted their certificates though they are ELIGIBLE.Even if the eligible teachers v 4gottn isitnt the responsibility of the HROs to show theit concern and call??? I am on doubt whether there will be productive ,efficeint and potential teachers joining the Edn family in the near future if this is the treament given to the so called Noble profession holders.
    It appeared as if the ministry has already have their candidates in store and the annoucement wwas just for show.

    Please treat the teachers as a subject. I think to have good teacher its imperative that teachers are given good and the best treament.

    #46780

    whitepainter
    Participant

    HRD needs to keep the following points in mind while shortlisting/appointing VPs/Principals:
    1. Must give preference to senior teachers after consulting with DEOs & Principals
    2. Must thoroughly understand the contributions made by the aspiring VPs/Principals
    3. Shortlisting MUST NOT be based on academic marks. all teachers with high marks in subjects MAY NOT be GOOD administrators
    4. Must give preference to junior teachers if their contributions are very good in academic/non academic affairs to motivate others to perform better
    5. Criteria for shortlisting & selection must be made open to all prior to shortlisting/selection
    6. Must give good weightage to the recommendations obtain by the candidates for many of the recommendation letters are issued by Managers/supervisors/Dasho Dzongdas who know the contributions made by the candidates. they also know the capacity and attitudes of such aspiring candidates.

    #46796

    brainy
    Participant

    hey target, for your kind information
    1) the formal RCSE was only conducted on Jan, 2012
    2) through your say,i have known that you have performed very poor during college,
    3) from the second point i have known that why you complained
    4) from the third reason i have known that you always lived a life of going to do,
    5)conclusion- you are a total failure.

    the people holding the high degree marks are only due to their capability, dedication and i believe they have also served best to their abilities in whatsoever. ‘They are the man with vision’ not like you.

    you know that only the best man wins.

    # i dont represent any teaching fraternity but you like it or not,
    it is a voice straight from my heart, fellas!

    #46794

    sawadee
    Participant

    I do agree with above authors regarding the HRD criteria for short listing candidates for VP and Principal post. HRD need to really study the ground realities and then need to implement their tools for the purpose of short listing. If this is only the means to short listing, I would suggest HRD officials to be mindful about pool of teachers, who have been shouldering the extra responsibilities like ofgt. VP and principal, teacher incharge in remote schools, ofcourse the worth of recommendations from varoius supervisors and lets not forget our senior coaches and mentors.
    If this is the trend in ministry, I am sure, people will find weaknesses in HRD policy and time now on more of Light Drukyul, CBT, so on so forth programs needs to be initiated for detoration of quality of education. I am in the opinion that, those teachers of those programs are not to be blamed directly, for them they have the gun but no bullets to shoot. So HRD, please be cautious that, what ever is implemented at your level shouldn’t be too narrow and baseless and ofcourse unprofessional planning and exceution of policy in hand. And also not to treat all our teachers as means to the ends. Plaese respect their invaluable contributions made to the school, be it one who is senior or junior. This is not to hurt anyones’ sentiments, but being in same organization, felt about the system.

    #46951

    target
    Participant

    In response to Mr. Brainy, i don’t want to have unnecessary conversation by misunderstanding the concept. You have directly assume me as a teacher and poor performer in the academic .
    For your kind information, i earnestly request Mr. Brainy to go through my post clearly and pass necessary remarks to other. You have not read my post clearly.
    i didn’t said that i am a teacher and having poor academic performance who is not eligible for the post of VP and Principal.
    i just brought this issues, because i have many friend who are interested and want to become Vp and Principal. i have talked with them and met with them. so having deep conversation i have understood the mental feeling and emotion , depression going under those guys, so on behalf of my friends and other teachers who got disqualified, i have brought this issue in the forum.
    since i was brighten by the teachers and i have soft corner for them. when clear laws, rules and formalities are not in place, i think it is our responsibility to raise issues and bring changes in the society. we have to support our teachers morally as friend, as parents and not by demotivating, embarrassing them.
    so friend, pass not unnecessary remarks without knowing the actual facts, please read statement clearly and understand the meaning. With regards to shortlisting of candidate , i am totally dissatisfied, it is not happening in teaching field, even in other department too. so there is not logic behind, having only one criteria for shortlist to judge the performance of particular person. i request higher authority to consider this issues and at least set some standard criteria for shortlisting also.
    some example criteria are already mentioned by other colleagues.

    #46964

    Bangchung
    Participant

    Dear Author and all other supporters, make sense of your issue being raised here. To me your problem is not at all sensible by reasoning that the shortlisting should have been based on seniority. Do never try to draw boundaries between seniors, juniors, colours, etc. We are living in a contemporary world where the society is driven by brilliant and smart people, of course experiences may require too, but the former counts much better. Hierarchy system is the biggest mistakes nowadays realized by the companies and organizations around the world. Let the young or old whosoever is capable to manage the school lead. The world has got no time for letting the young and capable ones to wait for their seniors to retire or die. It has reached to a stage to take even the infants as leaders if found to be capable. So I don’t think selection based on academic performance is a mistake done by the MoE. Otherwise where will you make use of your certificates which is actually an evidence of your performance in your lifetime while in the college as a trainee teacher.

    I can’t beleive this statement
    “The reason for having less marks during degree course is because before 2005, there wasn’t rcsc exam for B.ed candidates, but later announced and said that there will be rcsc exam for B.ed graduate, the lecture in the college they have started giving high marks for those B.Ed teachers. Earlier only few people can able to score good marks because lecture they tighten the marks or give just pass only.”
    Look how bad your attitude is? Do you think that you can lead a school? You never blame on your weakness of performing poorly.

    #46962

    brainy
    Participant

    #N.B Please, DOWNLOAD and refer the BCSR 2012 from http://www.rcsc.gov.bt, chapter 4 on the recruitment, selection and appointment page 57,

    go down to pg.63,
    4.7.1.8 short listing of applicants

    2) go to the education website, click on the shortlisted candidates for P and VP,when opened, scroll down till the end until you see NOTE no 2.
    i hope this will definitely put an end to your argument put forth and help you and your followers get clarified hereafter. today is an age of open competition irrespective of seniors/juniors and only the best survives.

    The HRD are doing gr8 job in accordance with the law, so carry on……………………………………….
    still if some are there to comment on the side of target and even target himself, i will comment no further since i feel that those who can hear me had already heard me.
    “so be me and be brainy, not the target where anybody can aim, shoot and throw.

    #47089

    target
    Participant

    what is use of democracy and fundamental rights in this contemporary time if we stick to rules given in the book. Since authentic rules for shortlisting were not there in the BCSR and in ministry policy. simply shortlisting base on the degree marks is not enough. Here people are competing for post not for job. That is why i am saying that there should be some more clear criteria. i hope my points is also clear to other.
    Some time being target to be targeted is more important then the brainy who always tries to defend and criticizing other.

    #47169

    Chatola
    Participant

    I THINK THERE IS NO PURPOSE WAILING OUR THROATS OUT YEARS AFTER YEARS ON THE SAME ISSUE. THE HRM AND EDUCATION MINISTRY IS INSENSITIVE TO THE BITTER CRY AND DEMOTIVATED SPIRITS OF THE TEACHERS WHEN IT COMES ESPECIALLY DURING SUCH INTERVIEWS WHERE MY JUNIOURS ARE SELECTED BASED ON THE DEGREE MARKS, WHILE WE HAVE SERVED DELIGENTLY FOR YEARS, SOME WORKING AS OFFICIATING IN REMOTE AREAS. PLEASE ASK A QUESTION? hOW WOULD I FEEL IF MY 2,3,4 YEAR JUNIOUR IS SELECTED ON A JOB INTERVIEW AND I AM LEFT BEHIND? i THINK SO. OFCOURSE, OFFICIALS IN MOE AND HRM KNOWS IT IS A WASTAGE TO EVEN BE EMPHATIC ABOUT IT. HEARTLESS OFFICIALS I WOULD CALL IT. I WOULD LAY DOWN THAT:
    1. MANY OF US WHO WROTE ICSE HAVE AVERAGE MARKS THAN THOSE WHO SIT FOR BCSE/BHCSEC. WE ALL KNOW THAT ICSE BATCHES SAT FOR TOUGHER PAPERS COMPETING WITH THE INDIAN COUNTERPARS
    2. IT IS DEMORALISING TO BE NOT EVEN SHORTLISTED AFTER SERVING THE NATION, THE SYSTEM DEDICATEDLY IRRESPECTIVE OF OUR MARKS.
    3. wHERE IS THE JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS IF OUR INPUT AND OUT PUT DOES NOT VALUE AT SUCH TIMES?
    4. WHY DO THE MOE WANT EVERY TEACHER TO PERFORM TO THE SAME STANDARD IF WE WERE TO NOT BE GIVEN AN OUNCE OF CONSIDERATION FOR OUR SACRIFICES.?
    5. dO YOU CONSIDER FAIR BY JUSTIFYING JUST THE DEGREE MARKS? WHAT IS THE REQUIREMENT OF RELEVANT CERTIFICATES AND RECOMMENDATIONS IF IT WAS NOT GOING TO BE GIVEN A CREDIT.

    PLEASE BROOD ON THE ISSUE….PMS IS USELESS IS EXPERIENCE, PERFORMANCE AND RECOMMENDATIONS, AND PROOFS ARE NOT BEING GIVEN ANY CONSIDERATION.

    I WOULD ASK GRADUATES XII AND PGCE’S NOT TO CONSIDER TEACHING…TEACHING IS BECOMING A SAD PLACE TO BE FOR YOUR FUTURE CAREER.

    SHOULD WE PERFORM IN THE FIELD BASED ON OUR DEGREE MARKS TOO?

    #47282

    pope
    Participant

    Who appoints officiating principals? They are appointed without consulting even concerned Principals. I heard that those teachers who are close to ADEOs are appointed as off. Principals. We have in the system some officiating pin. who are in P5 and P4. This people have to wait for many years to become Prin. Many of them have served as off. for many years and if not selected will definately demoralize them. So whose mistake is it? I think when appointing off. Prin. following procedure should be followed:
    1) Principal recommendation
    2) Academic performance
    3) Seniroty
    4) Contribution and attitude

    #47320

    XXX
    Participant

    TO THOSE UNSELECTED TEACHERS FOR THE POST OF PRINCIPAL

    1. IF YOU ALL HAVE INTENTION TO POUR THE FRUSTRATIONS ON TEACHING CHILDREN; THEN THOSE UNSELECTED TEACHERS, THEIR PERFORMANCE RATING SHOULD BE CLOSELY MONITORED. SHOULD THERE BE ANY POOR PERFORMANCE; THERE SHOULD BE DEMOTION OR FURTHERED WITH HELD THE PROMOTION. OR IT COULD LEAD TO TERMINATION IF THEY DON’T RESPECT THEIR PROFESSION.

    2. PRINCIPALS OF RESPECTIVE SCHOOLS CAN GET LIST OF THOSE UNSELECTED TEACHER FROM MoE HRO OFFICE OR DZONGKHAG HRO OFFICES.

    3. STUDENTS AND PARENTS HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG TO MAKE DISQUALIFY THOSE UNSELECTED TEACHERS FROM THE POST OF PRINCIPAL

    4. SINCE TEACHERS DEMANDED TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT HAVE ALREADY INTRODUCED INCENTIVES .

    THEREFORE ONE SHOULDN’T THREATEN ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT GETTING SELECTED. APPRECIATE WITH WHAT ONE HAS AND BE SATISFIED.

    #47297

    triple xxx
    Participant

    I too think that the shortlisting of VP is unfair based on the academic marks. By profession, I am a teacher and after consulting few friends and through my own experience i would like to share the following. Till 2003 the number of B.Ed /PGCE graduate were less compared to 2004 and above and the opportunity for the post for VP was quite easy. The number of trainee increased in both the NIE’s after 2004 and then the pass marks required then was 40 percent but after the NIE’s were changed to PCE and SCE and brought under RUB, everything changed. The pass percent was changed to 50 percent, thus bringing a gap of 10 percent between the two system and naturally the RUB had the upper hand. In the olden days trainees were placed in 3rd Div if they got 40-50 and in the RUB 3rd place could be in 50-60. So thereby making a vast difference in the academic marks. During our days we hardly had people in the distinction which is equal to first div in the RUB. The second division started from 50-60 for NIE’S while as it was 60+ for the PCE/SCE, what i want to CLARIFY is if we really need to look into the academic mark then the STARTING LINE SHOULD BE SAME FOR ALL, which is not in today. look into most of the shortlisting done either for studies or any other field we see more from 2007 batch and above. I don’t say they cannot be a good leader but we also should give importance to the seniors. The battle should be among the equals if one has advantage then the fight is unnecessary as we can predict the winner. After few years we will see that the batch which fell under NIE’s will not be shortlisted in any open competition.

    It is high time that the Ministry should look into these issues and sort things out rather than having unhappy and qualified teachers . The ministry has provided opportunities but make the starting line same so that all are treated equally and gets a fair share to showcase their talents as all teachers have their own talents and sincerely i don’t have ideas about Offgt VP’s as discussed above. I just wonder why appoint them if no due recognition is given, because responsibilities comes with right and the responsibilities of VP’s (Though was never in my life) is huge. If offgt VP’s are not recognized then don’t appoint and give them hope.

    Thanks

    #47451

    soso
    Participant

    I think short listing based on BEd and PDGE mark is fair enough. It is not based on class X and XII a marks as argued by afew friends.
    As pope mentioned Pincipal should be consulted while appointing off principal and proper procedures should be followed. Yes those who are so nominated should be closely watched.

    #47729

    target
    Participant

    it is very difficult to assess the human psyche and feelings, so far no psychologist has taken research about the human inner feelings. so in case of what Mr. Pope written, i think there is no possibility that a particular desperate teacher can be judged and observed, expel him or her from the job, it is impossible to do it like this.
    in case of officiating appointment, it should go through proper channel. if brighter people to be administrator, than there is no opportunities for low academic people to take the higher post and to become the administrator, so provide equal opportunity to equal work and no discrimination in the land of GNH country.
    The teachers in the school need to raise this issues during DYT and education conference. Not in teaching field only, all ministries need to revisit the criteria and give equal opportunities all the people.
    FAIR, FAIR AND EQUALITY SHOULD KEEP IN THE MIND OF PEOPLE.

    #47808

    azay2013
    Participant

    Not all tom. dick and … can become head of the institution. A leader should be good in academic, games, cultural, attitude, and most important hard working and comitted. So it best to select based on merit.

    #47913

    snowman
    Participant

    There is always a cry! If HRD selected Seniors, then the cry would be, THE OLD HEADS ARE SELECTED AND IT IS UNFAIR. Young people with new ideas must be selected… Am I right???

    For god’s sake, let’s stop such complains.

    #47922

    Sertog
    Participant

    The opportunities are always there, and so grab this. Today you may not be slected but tommorrow, why not you could be the one. Everyone is not born as a leader. The success is result of complete failure. So keep on trying, tommorrow is always there for you.

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